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Final Debate between Paul Gonter and Jeff Milum
Original E-Mail to Local18membersvoice
Subject :Now you're making sense... From: jmilum@aol.com Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:33:55 EST
...maybe. Paul, I'm not at all opposed to legitimate opposition, or bringing legitimate questions to the members. What I am opposed to is the slinging of mud. Dave Jenkinson (and possibly your group, we'll see) has been making spurious accusations to the DOL about corruption in local 18 and telling the world abut them via the Internet. These allegations are very destructive to our local and they are completely false. And linking us with New York Local is guilt by association. And it's terribly wrong. It is these allegations that people will remember, even if they're patently false. If you remember, Jenkinson has circulated printed material every time an officer retired stating indictments were pending. Or that the person retired in order to avoid indictment. Always lying, always destructive, always unfounded. No decent engineer would do that. I've been a staff member for nearly fifteen years and no one has been indicted. There is nothing going on. Nothing! This is the "crap" that I am opposed to. It's wrong, it's destructive, it's malicious and it will be believed by the vast majority of the uniformed and/or those who oppose unions. I'm also opposed to the airing of our internal affairs, salaries, pensions, etc., because if we go that way, how long will it be before people are standing in front of Walmart passing out information about your salary and pension? And if this happens, how long will it be before a repeal of prevailing wage is on the ballot? What will you tell people who say you make forty dollars an hour? And that you are overpaid? No, it's far better to keep our business in-house. As I said in my first e-mail, run for office. It's your right (and I don't believe for a minute that anyone in local 18 has ever "punished" a member for doing so) but don't destroy or damage your union in the process. We should probably stop this correspondence. I want to emphasize that I have no anger or malice toward you. But if someone took bits and pieces of what I wrote they could probably take something out of context and use it against me. I took that chance because I believe you have some degree of integrity and you care about your union. I pray this is so.
Jeff Milum
Response From Paul Gonter Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:07:49 -0000 Jeff, I don't sling mud but during the history of Local 18 the incumbents have painted many "rebels" as "out to destroy the union" or kooks. If it wasn't for rebels and kooks of Local 18 the court order by Judge Lambros would not have changed the dispatching and election habits that was practiced by the officers and business agents previous to 1984. You'll say that this doesn't happen anymore but without a free press who can say it won't happen again. As far as posting of wages of officers and employees of Local 18 it's public knowledge available from the DOL. I think if any organization was going to use it against Local 18 they would have already done so. The citizens of America know what every public official makes or can find out and America seems to be doing alright the same should apply to any union officer or employee. In my opinion it's because or freedom of information and a free press. That's why democracy is on the rise in the rest of the world. On this web page no attacks will be made on individuals only ideology. This group is about a difference of opinion in how a union should conduct its internal affairs. Let all the cards fall before you pass judgment. Paul
Original Message From: jmium@aol.com Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:36:00 EDT
Do what you want, Paul, it's your right. I'm just telling you that, in my opinion, everyone on the staff of local 18 (and that includes the executive board) is honest, decent and hardworking. And they deserve to be treated with a degree of respect. And so does your union. Local 18 is, in my opinion, the best union in the state of Ohio and arguably one of the best in the nation. People reading that balderdash that Jenkinson puts out would think otherwise. And I'm hoping you don't stoop to his level. But apparently you disagree with that approach. You see, Paul, I'm a "Marquis of Queensbury" type, "Shake hands and come out fighting. And may the best man win." In other words, a fair fight. I don't believe in, or practice, character assassination, lying or innuendo. Nor do I believe in guilt by association (as in New York ). But, like I said, you do what you want. It's your right. Jeff
Additonal Message From: jmilum@aol.com Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:31:53 EDT
We don't know each other, Paul, so please don't take this wrong. But it's possible that you are like Jenkinson, who, in my opinion, is malicious and deceitful. I don't think that you're like that but one never knows. So I thought I'd let you know that I had a major surgery and have been off work for a couple of weeks now. Just in case (and this is the part that may offend you) you were thinking of using the dates and times of my correspondence to embarrass me. Or even report to the DOL that I am campaigning on union time. Like I said, I hope you're not that way and I apologize in advance if I offended you. Believe it or not, some people are that petty. So this way I save you the embarrassment if you were going to and maybe find out what kind of person you are. Learn a little about you. Hopefully you've got more class than that.
Jeff
Response From Paul Gonter Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:14:29 -0000 Jeff, I appreciate your candor. I had not looked at the time of your e-mails. This web page is about ideology and offering the members of Local 18 a place to vent their support or disagreement with Local 18 incumbents or the content of this web page. We will make every effort to make sure that no individual suffers from character assassination. If you look back through our communications I have never used any ones name specifically, only references to the office. I should clarify that I am not attacking the current administration specifically but a belief by every administration of Local 18 that the rank and file membership is not capable of a more active role in the Local and District's government. We only have two meetings that official business may be conducted (January and Junes' statewide meeting). Attended mostly by employees, officers, and board members who are members of the incumbent's slate. Hard for free speech and free thinking to be exercised by a member in front of a crowd like that. So they just don't speak up or for that matter even show up. Again democracy, free speech, a free press, and a system that doesn't formulate rules or perpetuate the feeling that if a member doesn't agree with the leaders of his or her union they are going to be ridiculed will restore the union movement to the place in the American public's eye that will enable the union movement to return to a "superpower position" in America. The road to democracy in any government or organization is the "high road”. Give use a fair chance before you begin to tear apart this group. We've had sixty plus years of the current concept of union government in Local 18 and we think its time to change some of it. Paul Gonter
Original Message From jmilum@aol.com Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:34:22 EDT
Now that's a whole different approach than I was expecting. We may disagree but do so with respect.
Thank you
Jeff
Response From Paul Gonter Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:16:23 -0000
Jeff, Agree to disagree is the term I believe. I've got many people in my life that I still respect but we can't ever agree on certain subjects. Part of being a leader is coming to the realization that spirited debate is the most healthy activity in any organization. We may not agree on Local 18's or for that manner any unions' relationship with its members but I could never allow anyone to attack your character because they do not agree with you.
Original Message Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:54:48 EDT From jmilum@aol.com
Thank you. And I will show you the same respect.
Jeff |
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